raising food for my leos... advice?

So i am moving out of the dorms (yay!) and into my own apartment... where... (woah!) my leos will have their own room!!! .. they will have to share it with my cresties and my ball python but... u know
anyway... i have decided that I am quite done with spending so much $ on getting crickets and worms all the time for all my animals and i think it would be cost effecient to start to raise my own...

Questions:
-what food items are the easiest to breed and care for?
-which dont smell and have a less of a chance of escaping? (so not breeding crickets!)
-where should I buy from and how many to start small colonies?

FYI- I have 4 leos (2 full adults and 2 "almost" adults); I also have 3 baby cresties, and I have baby leos on the way with the eggs in the incubator

So far I think i will buy superworms, mealworms, and possibly roaches from Shrap (I think its shrap who has discoids.com) I was wondering about pheonix worms, silkies, and butterworms... b/c my leos absolutely love butterworms... havent tried pheonix worms yet... but they also really like silkies...

any advice? tutorials or how-to's?

... I have 2 "extra" 6 qt clear containers with lids that I would like to put the superworms and mealies in... I could/will buy more if needed

 

Roaches and supers would be my top 2. I plan on breeding my own roaches when I get my own place here in a little while. From what I hear, they are easy to breed and they are a very good feeder.
Supers apparently are another easy to breed one, and they are a very good feeder as well.
Silkies are a great feeder, but some people have trouble breeding them. Others can seemingly do it with their eyes closed.
Crickets lose to roaches, as they make noise, they can smell, and are no easier to breed.

I believe Shrap has a great tutorial on discoid breeding on www.discoids.com.
Here is a good link for super breeding that I found awhile back:
http://www.iaherp.org/superworms/index.html
I've never tried it, so I can't speak for the accuracy, though.

 

I've had mealworms going for about 2 weeks now and its real easy so far. Since you have adults, I would suggest buying large mealies, so they can turn to beetles and start breeding quickly. I think you would be able to get away with 500 for the first batch and have enough new worms by the time the 500 run out. They are pretty cheap anyway so if you do run out, just order another 500. About $13 at Superwormfarm.com. Also, get 5lbs of the cricketfood.com worm bedding. Should be enough for a few months (so I've heard). Put an egg carton/flat on top of the bedding so it gives the worms more room to crawl around and also to put your water source (carrots, apples, potatoes, etc) on so you don't get your bedding wet. You'll find a lot of the worms will gather under the carton/flat so it makes it easy to get them come feeding time. They dont really smell either. I'll upload the pics of my set up when I get home from work tonight.

I ordered this Superworm Breeding Kit from wormman.com. Still waiting for it to come. Seems like a good deal with all the materials needed for breeding the supers, since they need to be separated before they pupate. I hear it will take a couple months before you'll really have a cycle of supers for feeding. Also heard dead ones really smell bad however.

My 3rd feeder will be crickets which I will buy from the store from time to time. Definitely will not breed them cause of the noise and possibility of escapees.

 

I agree with Dacubs. Supers and Roaches are the easiest and cleanest to breed as far as feeders go in my opinion. If you get the right species of roaches you won't have to worry about them escaping. If you were to raise a 3rd feeder, my choice would be mealworms. They are as easy and clean as Supers. I really like silk worms as a feeder but in my opinion are a pain in the butt to breed. Word of advice, do not get madagascar hissing roaches. They climb! (I learned the hard way!) Also, the page DaCubs gave you for breeding supers is right on the money but if you don't have empty 35mm film canisters laying around you can go to Michael's or some other craft store and buy empty paint containers or anything else to keep them seperated. I've even seen people use tackle boxes (tho who wants to use their tackle box for supers?! That's for fishing!)

 

for mealies do u seperate them as well? and shouldnt the supers have some kind of bedding or food/"water" when they are seperated?

 

o... phoenix worms... any info on those?

... just ordered 500 supers and 500 mealies and a thing of phoenix worms just b/c i want to see if my guys like 'em got it from www.wormman.com... i think i'l go to target again and pick up a tackle box or something of the sort... we'll see... just wanna go look around ... i think i have a shopping problem... lol

 

I have fed Phoenix Worms. They are very nutritious BUT very tiny and come in a very fine bedding which is nearly impossible to get off the worm itself. They are easy to keep but I have no idea how to breed them. I know they turn into some sort of flying creature because I opened my container once and a flying creature flew out at me *ugh* I found them too small and too expensive to bother with. Just my opinion. How about trevo aka butterworms? They are supposed to be very nutritious.

 

Mealies will pupate just fine when housed together, no need to seperate them although it is a good idea to keep the beetles and worms in different containers to prevent nibbling.

Supers take a very very long time to pupate if they are not seperated. Once they reach adult size (about 3 inches) they will continue to eat and eat and not pupate for months. A bit of stress is needed to force them into pupae so a dark, small place with no food or water is what's needed to stimulate them into pupating.

 

I like the phoenix worms. While small, they pack a lot of nutrition. More small feeders > less big feeders for digestive purposes in my opinion. The substrate comes off with a quick, stern blow of air from me just fine.

 

So we have 7 of the 35MM film canisters, if we put 1 super per cansiter once they turn into beetles about how many supers would that get us? AND does it have to be dark? In the pic of the above link it didn't really show if they were in a dark place or if the tops were on the film canisters! I am cofused about that part!

 

in the link he said he had them in a shoe box like container... so i am assuming he put the lid on to make it dark in there.... also, worleygurl my younger leos LOVE butterworms... i have been getting those for a while now from www.herpfood.com but decided that www.wormman.com was a bit cheaper for larger amounts...

thanx cerus... thought i wouldbe killing my worms with no food... but i get how that would stimulate them to change.. thanx for alll the advice!

 

From the Pic it is a sweater box which is a clear see through plastic tub. Here's hoping it doesn't need to be dark dark, we have ours in a critter keeper and I covered the sides with stuff to make it a bit darker.

 

Females will lay up to 500 eggs in their life cycle which is roughly 4-6 mos. You can use film canisteres, just put a few holes in the lid and close it up. The devided sewing boxes also work well or the previously mentioned tackle boxes. Just something small and as dark as possible to stimulate the change. I've left adult worms in the bins which are just dim, not dark, and the supers eventually curl up in the egg flats and change but that process took several months.

 

hm... what about dixie cups? you know the little little ones you use in like your bathroom? I saw a package on sale for $1 of 180 count... picked it up... thought it might work ... this is going to take up a lot of room... darn.. lol

Does anyone have pics of their "setup" for their worms or roaches?

 

Poor Kris! :shock:
Phoenix worms are really Soldier fly larvae, so, they turn into flies. I have no clue how one would go about breeding flies, or even what they would eat, but don't think it sounds like something I would want to get involved with. They are supposed to be a very good feeder though, a lot of things I have read about them indicate they can be used a staple with no problem. The things I've read from folks who have tried them are making me think they aren't worth the hassle (size, flies!! etc.).

 

It's always good to mix the diet up a little bit. I say give them a try.

 

I would go with lobster roaches. They are cheep and they breed great.

 

Well, here's a pic of my set up as promised..



Top shelf for mealies, 2nd shelf will be for supers, and the bottom shelf is for supplies at the moment. Speaking of supers, OMG they are the most disgusting little creatures! I got my Superworm Breeding Kit yesterday.



They are HUGE and convulse like they are being electricuted when you try to pick them up. :shock: I had to resort to gloves and tweezers to transfer them from the bag to the bin. I estimate about 250 supers came in the kit. Much more than I expected. About 80% of them were big and beefy and at least 2 inches long. One of them even shed within the 1st hour. Had some stow aways in the package. A tiny centimeter long worm thing was in the bins. Didnt know what it was, so I just killed it. Also, a small moth-looking bug was in the bag with the worms. The bag was totally disgusting and soiled. No dead worms at all, although if any died, they might have been eaten by the other worms..like this unfortunate fellow.. :lol:

 

haha yeah... i forgot u had never seen supers b4... they do take some getting used to... and their little legs are sharp!!! i thought i was getting bitten at 1st! lol... But i've been getting them for my leos for over a yr or 2 now so... but still creepy! lol.
And i was SO going to buy that drawer thing (same exact one!) from target yesterday but thought the worms would maybe get out... guess they dont?... do the beetles get out? i hope not... lol
how many mealworms do u have in that drawer? do u ever seperate the beetles and stuff.. or do u just leave them all in there?

 

Nope, worms cant get out. Its a bit hard to see, but the 2nd pic in my previous post has a small "bin" with supers in it. They cant even get out of that one and there's only about an inch or two from the bedding to the top.

No beetles as of yet. Not even any pupaes yet.

I bought 500 medium mealworms to start with.

I don't plan on separating them. I know its better separate so the beetles don't munch on the others, but I have a constant supply of carrots in there so that "should" stop them from eating the others...plus I dont feel like getting another bin for them. "lol"