How to make your own snake bit kit (anti-ophidic serum)?

Discussion in 'Venomous Snakes' started by fbimostwanted101, Aug 18, 2007.

  1. I heard that this professional snake handler in australia as a high school kid made his own anti venom when he got bit. How did he do this himself. I know you are suppost to milk the snake but don't you have to filter it or something. How does it work?
     
  2. Snakes_Incorporated

    Snakes_Incorporated New Member

    Making anti-venom must be left up to the professionals.
    These people are toxicology professors who have trained all their lives to do this and have a vast reserve of scientifically knowlage and experience to fall back on.
    For a want-to-be to come along thinking it cool to work with deadly toxins and try manufacture some cocktail antidote with zero training in its effects and side effects is making a very dangerous mistake.

    What I think of someone sticking a needle filled with a deadly homebrew into them will be censored but I am sure you get my drift.
     
  3. mkbailey755

    mkbailey755 Embryo

    From what I understand they inject the venom into sheep which the sheep will create the anti venom which they extract. A home brew is not possible without 1000's of dollars in equipment.
     
  4. Snakes_Incorporated

    Snakes_Incorporated New Member

    Sheep have a very high natural tolerance for venom but are not used in venom anybodies extraction because sheep do not have an adequate amount of blood to tape. Sticking a needle of homebrew into any living creature will still be a bad thing.

    Using 1000`s of` dollars worth of equipment does not change the fact that it is being produced by armatures. Its like saying that if a learner driver drives a Ferrari it will turn the person behind the wheel in to a Formula 1 driver.
     
  5. Skunky

    Skunky Embryo

    Not even mentioning the whole aspect of sterility chain from the start to finish. Most folks dont know the first thing about maintaining a sterile practice.
     
  6. intifallout

    intifallout Embryo

    As a former chem prof and someone who is involved in a university chem dept, all I can say is this:

    1) How would one know how much venom to inject into a horse?
    2) How would one get the serum and condense it into an antivenon
    3) Sterility issues, impurity issues (sure to give you an allergic response)

    Could this all be an urban legend?
     
  7. mkbailey755

    mkbailey755 Embryo

    How exactly is it made then?
     
  8. Snakes_Incorporated

    Snakes_Incorporated New Member

    No idea myself. Ask these people and let us know :wink: http://www.savp.co.za/
     
  9. intifallout

    intifallout Embryo

    Key Phrase: When he got bit! That tells me this is an urban legend (the time involved for an animal to produce the antibodies, takes its blood and extract anti venon would be way too long. That tells me he received a dry (or minimal envenomation) bite. He just got lucky with whatever he shot himeself up that he did not have a bad reaction. If he really did.
     
  10. Owthatstings

    Owthatstings Embryo

    RE: Re: How to make your own snake bit kit (anti-ophidic ser

    Some handlers (only one or two that I know of) will use minute amounts of venom placed in scratches in their skin to build up an immunity over the years. The venom can still hurt them, but not nearly as much as it would a regular person.
     
  11. Snakes_Incorporated

    Snakes_Incorporated New Member

    Re: RE: Re: How to make your own snake bit kit (anti-ophidic

    I did research on this some years back. This method of trying to create a tolerance for venom toxin has its downfall.
    Either the patient builds up a small immunity or the toxin attacks and destroys the immunity molecules naturally found in the system. This would cause the patient to have no tolerance what so ever and also have a reaction to any anti-venom if used in the treatment of being tagged.

    In short rather just take your chances as dead is for a very long time. 8)
     
  12. Owthatstings

    Owthatstings Embryo

    Re: RE: Re: How to make your own snake bit kit (anti-ophidic

    It seems to me that it would be a downfall altogether; that stuff's got to hurt!!
     
  13. mkbailey755

    mkbailey755 Embryo

    I emailed them 3 time with no response... but I did look it up on wikipedia and came across my same reponse
    Antivenin (or antivenene or antivenom) is a biological product used in the treatment of venomous bites or stings. It is created by injecting a small amount of the targeted venom into an animal such as a horse, sheep, goat, or rabbit; the subject animal will suffer an immune response to the venom, producing antibodies against the venom's active molecule which can then be harvested from the animal's blood and used to treat envenomation in others. Internationally, Snake Venom Antitoxin must carefully meet the standards of Pharmacopoeia and the World Health Organization (WHO). [1]
     
  14. Snakes_Incorporated

    Snakes_Incorporated New Member

  15. intifallout

    intifallout Embryo

    Re: RE: Re: How to make your own snake bit kit (anti-ophidic

    A hemotoxic venom (vipers, pit vipers) would probably hurt to a large degree. Neurotoxic ones probably would not hurt. And as snakes incorporated mentioned, there might be other issues. All the LD50 tells you is how toxic a compound is in an acute dose. But the LD50s are also on animals. I can eat a pound of macadamia nuts or put a few packets of xylitol sweetner in my coffee with no problem, but if a dog was to eat a small handful of macadamia nuts or a couple packets of xylitol, its off to doggy heaven or hell (in the case of pit bulls). Exposing yourself to venom even once can have drawbacks. There was a case of this guy in the US who was a rattlesnake milker who after many years got nailed. The venom reacted badly since he became allergic to it after being exposed to very small amounts over the years.
     
  16. Snakes_Incorporated

    Snakes_Incorporated New Member

    About 70% of people administered with horse-produced anti-venom suffer from anaphylactic shock. I agree with Intifallout regards the symptoms being different between animals and human. Mice have a natural tolerance for Boomslange venom but humans find it extremely toxic.

    Cytotoxic is cell destroying and extremely painful but I can assure you that neurotoxin is not as painful but certainly not a walk in the park.
     
  17. intifallout

    intifallout Embryo

    how did a cape cobra bite you? did you stumble across it or were you handling it. Also, how long and what symptoms happened before you were paced on a ventilator? (You had that tube down your throat for 7 days?) Sounds like I would prefere an iron lung.
     
  18. Snakes_Incorporated

    Snakes_Incorporated New Member

    The Cape Cobra bit me because I was a little too familiar and over confidant.

    I wrote the symptoms down on a list as in a diary till my lights went out. I resumed my entries when I was able, about a week and a half later.

    Stupidity is never to be admired or bragged about but the experience was a good lesson and a priceless education.
    I am able to see and value the little things in life like taking a breath unaided.
     
  19. mkbailey755

    mkbailey755 Embryo

    well I did get a reply from Peter Mirtschin [venoms@venomsupplies.com] and this is what he said
    Hi Michael,

    Animals, usually horses are injected with venom. They make antibodies and the antibodies are harvested and used for the antivenom.

    Cheers

    Peter Mirtschin
    Managing Director
    Venom Supplies Pty Ltd
    Adjunct Research Fellow
    School of Pharmacy & Medical Sciences
    University of South Australia
    PO Box 547
    Tanunda
    South Australia 5352
     
  20. Snakes_Incorporated

    Snakes_Incorporated New Member

    Lets discuses secrets. Ask him were he sends the samples?? :wink:
     

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