I know I've been making a lot of posts recently but... I know heat rocks are bad for most reptiles... are they safe to use for leopard geckos? I've been wondering about this, and I can't find anything on it. Because reps can sense temps, would they be safe for my leo. Would he/she be able to know it's too hot if/when it gets too hot? Thanks,
Leos sense heat through their bellies, so it would be "correct" in a technical sense. Almost anyone who knows anything about reptiles will tell you they are horrible though. Here's my opinion: Heat rocks are wonderful. Fire it up outside of the cage and come back an hour later. Put your hand on it. If its to hot for you, its to hot for your leo. Done. Keep in mind though that you should be repeating this procedure about every week or every other week to keep an eye on the development of thermal hot spots. If ever you feel a spot that has become to hot for your own hand, then the rock has gone bad. Now with all of that said, yes rocks are awesome, but is it really worth all the extra effort when you could just use an under tank heater and a thermostat?
Well if they go bad so quickly, then they really aren't worth the money I wouldn't think... Can you explain how the thermostat works? Do the heat lamps plug into it or what? I just don't get it. Well, every time I think I get it, I get confused somehow. Because if the heat lamps don't plug into the thermostat (which plugs into the wall), how does it control it? or heat pad... I'm still working on that one. I have heat lamps (2- one 60 watt, one 40 watt) though I plan on ordering an UTH offline whenever i get my visa gift card (reptilesupplies.com). Do they sell thermostats meant for terrariums? Thanks,
Hi Cookie17, I am going to be one of those reptile owners that will tell you how horrible heat rocks are. In my opinion, it is not worth the risk of burning your gecko because the thing malfunctioned, and the ones I have seen people use are unstable and break easily. Besides that, I don't think my gecko would like it that much anyways. She always hangs out in her hides, so I think if I put a rock in there she wouldn't use it because it's out in the open. A UTH is just a better option with the same result without being dangerous. As for the thermostat, I'm not 100% sure if I am right, but I *think* the way they work is you plug your heat lamps/UTH into the thermostat and then plug the thermostat into the wall. They should come with a temperature probe that you place in your tank to measure the temperature. Then you set the thermostat to the temperature you want the tank to be. It will regulate the temperature for you by turning on the lights/UTH on when it gets cool, and cutting the power off when it is too hot. I have never owned one before, but that's my understanding of it. And yes, pretty much all of the major reptile supply companies make them for terrariums.
Since I have like a Gazillion threads open, I figured I'd just add to one another question. Do most or all baby leos have blue on their head?
My leo has green "eye-shadow". I think Ron Tremper is working to create a new line of "Blue Leos". The color varies in intensity & shade from animal to animal, but yeah, I think it's all.
i think they somewhat gave up on the blue leo. it didnt turn out as they had planned and wasnt a color mutation, just a bacteria i think. not 100-% sure but i think i read that on their site not too long ago just to check up on it and i think all young leos have the eyeshadow since their skin is so thin. ethen still has hers a little bit
I have had rocks that have lasted for as long as 3 or 4 years without getting to hot or dangerous. and even after they become useless, just cut off the cords and use it as a regular furnurature rock. they are totally worth the money. but again they can be a pain in the ass if you aren't very active in the maintenance of the enclosure so that you notice problems quickly. really, just go with the under tank heater to save yourself the effort.
Nice to see some positive comments on these things. they almost see kind of useless with as few animals that can use them. But I'll be using heat lamps, set up so the rocks get warm for my leo to use for digestion. But it's amazing they say that these rocks can be used with so many animals, when in truth they are only safe for very few animals. and with my school and all, I only really have time to handle my animals (that can be handled) for a decent amount of time. and with 2 guinea pigs two hamsters and a leo, thats quite a bit of time. But it's sooo worth it IMO. I love my animals dearly, and if I wouldn't get in so much trouble, I'd probably put them ahead of my schoolwork. And by that I mean that if I had a sick animal, I'd take care of that animal rather than doing my school work. Normally any sick animal of mine cause me to stay awake with worry at night, even after they've been checked out by a vet. There's still the possibility of something going wrong... Ugh I don't even wanna think about it! But, prevention is the best medicine. And having many exotic animals is actually an advantage. I had my guineas first, so I already have a nearby vet that does exotics... but the closest e-vet is not close enough. And exotic vets are expensive! They charged me $16 just to have my guineas nails clipped since I already had her in for a preventative check-up. I will never ask them to do that again, because I'm very capable of doing it myself. sorry for rambling... I am slightly sleep deprived... my niece has kept me up til 4 AM by waking up 3 times before it was even 2 AM, and then she fought the sleep for 1.5 hours and finally lost. But boy do i love that girl.
I may be the odd man out but I think heat rocks have a place in reptile care.Just like a UTH you have to use a rheostat or thermostat, even a dimmer switch.But they can be very useful.The newer ones will not get blazing hot but have a auto shutoff so that no longer happens. In the old days people just let them blaze away with no other heat options an animal had no choice but to use the over heated hot rock.Now people are more aware and keeping a good ambient temp with the hot rock as a basking only on some kind of control(rheo or thermo) they work great. Remember, you can burn your animal with anything,even a light bulb if you dont have proper temperature control and a good way to measure heat.
The issue isn't really the rock itself getting too hot, but the rock developing extremely hot patches on areas of the surface that were unrecognizeable by the herp, or internal thermostats of the more technologically advanced rocks. I've seen the burns first hand - I believe Cheri Smith (CheriS, original administrator of the site) noted some of these "hot spots." I'm not 100% certain it was her, but I recall her talking about them at some point in time so I will direct credit there for now. I believe some of the rocks were clocked at temperatures approximately in the 175 range in small locations while the overall ambient temperature of the rock maintained a more acceptable temperature for most herps. Herps like Bearded Dragons are VERY bad at determining belly temperature. This is why heat tape and UTH's are often not recommended for this species (in addition to their light needs). It was a beardie that I saw thermal burns on from one of these rocks - and while I agree that anyhting can cause a burn (including a fire, etc) the vast majority of heating applications don't involve the herp actually coming into contact with the heat source itself. A heat bulb should not be close enough to touch and should be secured safely, and caged if the herp is allowed to get too close and UTH's and heat tape should never come into direct contact with the herp either. Furthermore, the heat rock limits the animals ability to naturally thermoregulate. It forces them to a single site for their heat needs that does not adequately heat an entire area of the vivarium to give them choices for how warm they would like to be. Another reason burns are so associated with these devices... the animal may have no choice. I'm not trying to beef on anyone, as they certainly can be used safely in some circumstances. BUT, for the sake of the beginner hobbyists, its best to avoid them. There are so many more practical and proven safe methods of heating a reptile or amphibian that I'd much rather point anyone in a safer direction. Finally, to sum up this point, I'd say the vast majority of the time its the Keeper's fault for any harm to the animal and these burns more so than the faulty product itself... Not keeping accurate tabs on the temperature and not observing the animal's behavior around the heat source is often the reason burns and harm happen.
Well said, Jeffreh. So many things can be blamed on manufacturer and owner alike. Manufacturer for faulty wiring, but owner for not properly checking the heat source. Generally, if it's too hot for you, then it's too hot for your herp. I'm sure the majority of us become uncomfortable in temps over 85-90, but for herps, they have no choice if they want to stay warm and comfortable. But most herps can generally sense when they become too hot or too cold and move accordingly. They can't sweat if they become too hot, or shiver if they're too cold. And their bellies aren't that sensitive to heat, so they burn without realizing it. It's the responsibility of the owner not the manufacturer to maintain proper heating conditions.
How can they get hotspots that high with a rheostat set on low? I tend to think that those problems happened because they werent using a proper temp controller with them.I may be completely wrong here so Im not arguing.Ive just been wanting to get a heat rock for awhile and try it out on our leo.Im not much into lizards so thats all Ive got in that department. On a side note I wouldnt put it in the cage with the leo till i am 100 percent sure its safe.
I'm honestly not familiar with hot rocks all that much as a product, as I've always been told to avoid them completely so I've never truly looked into the apparatus itself. While I'm not sure if there have been drastic changes in any of the devices over the years, the animal I saw with the burns was in 2002 and Cheri and I would have discussed the matter sometime in 2003 before she became ill. A lot can change with these over the years and newer models/different brands might have better components in them in addition to rheostats or thermostats. To answer your question though; I'm not sure if older models had any form of temperature control. And if they did, it's highly probable that it was keeper error in keeping the rock on a setting that was too high (as I mentioned, a lot of this can be keeper error). The limitation of wattage would theoretically prevent temperatures from escalating that high, but it has happened in one way or another and I've heard of if happening on other occasions as well. I was not an avid forum-goer when I saw the animal with burns, and I'm sure Cheri's work wouldn't have spread like wildfire at the rate where the entire online community has grown to oppose them. It seems to me like this is something that has been accounted for on a number of occasions, just like the dangers of impaction with calci-sand, etc. I've seen boatloads of caresheets (including those on Melissa Kaplan's site, for example) suggesting to not use the product, so my guess is there is justification behind it. My thoughts: This is a product like Calci-Sand were bad things have and can potentially happen, but don't always. You may be able to use the product for the entire course of your herp's life with no issues whatsoever, or you may find problems on day 1. There are breeders who swear by using calcium based sands for leos and beardies and have never had an issue (along with using mealworms as a staple for beardies which is BAD) but then we have all seen vet documentation on necropsies and even photographs depicting death by impaction by these things. If you are smart about it and careful, it may work out great for you, but in my nearly 15 years of keeping lizards I've never used them and have had healthy, breeding, happy reptiles. And as I said earlier, I feel it's an unnessary tool when other heating methods allow for more thorough use of the ideal thermal gradiant. I'm not trying to argue or point fingers either = ) We are simply sharing our knowledge with one another to make whats best for our pets and hobby. I completely understand where you are coming from, and if we didn't have questions sites like ours wouldn't exist!
I personally am not going to use them. They are attractive terrarium decor but as a heat source there are many more supplies that are much more reliable and less disputed about. I just wondered about others opinions. It interests me to hear opinions from people who have dealt with them =) P.S. I HATE typing on this ipod... Hope my latop gets fixed SOON.
I may buy one just to test it out and not use it on any reptile.Im really curious about them.I remember 20yrs ago I got my first snake.I did everything wrong, heat rock, corncob bedding , live mice, yet it survived. Back then there werent alot of resources on care.But now there are so many rumors that can spread, turning certain things into "old wives tales" instead of actual truths. I just like the idea behind the hot rock because it can fill a little niche in certain cages that other heat sources cant.lights are annoying at night even the blue/red ones. Under tank heat can be a pain with a thick substrates in naturalistic cages. CHE are an option but in small tanks can overheat easily but there again a rheostat can solve that.But in a kids room they can be dangerous if they fall off the tank or get broken. I just cant believe with technology the way it is we cant get a nice safe hot rock.
I couldn't agree with you more, technology is evolving so rapidly its absolutely mind-blowing. I think the issue is more company greed and making the tools as economical as possible by taking shortcuts. The sad truth is many companies that are "devoted" to the care of animals are penny pinchers who could care less... its true in the dog and cat world, small mammal world, and the herp world. Its why we still see corn fillers in 75% of all major brand cat and dog foods along with a smorgasbord of unnessesary ingrediants that these animals would never have eaten in nature. Take a look at these articles on Fluker Farms, a huge name in the reptile biz for products in most pet stores...a wretched company: http://www.reptilerooms.com/index.php?categoryid=32 That was somewhat of a rant, really, so I apologize for that. Sort of a "money corrupts" kind of peeve of mine... I think there is nothing wrong with doing a controlled test, feel free to do as you please. But err on the side of caution before posting results and utilizing it in an herp viv. As we've discussed, its often keeper error/misinformation that leads to problems...someone such as yourself who might take extra precautions to ensure the safety of a product (like using a rheostat, etc) is an entirely different scenario than a novice keeper throwing one in there at full blast with other bad variables. People have a tendency of taking things literally and picking out what they want to hear, therefore ignoring important instructions that could make the difference in the safety of a product. Again, call me biased, but I have seen the burns first hand and as a result I don't believe I will ever be using this product. I've seen light burns on snouts as well, but these are generally a result of accidental contact as opposed to feeling a need to be on the heat source for warmth.
And.... as we are on this topic, look what ZooMed has come out with, lol. A Heat Rock Cave! Which actually has a very good instruction manual about how a heat rock should never be your primary heat source, also how if you live in a warm area you should be mindful of the products you purchase for your reptile and how a rheostat should be used.... http://www.zoomed.com/Library//ProductDBFiles/RH-1-10_Rock-Cave_Heaters.pdf And their new Deluxe Rock has a thermostat built in now... guess at least ZooMed is trying to be more conscientious of their products and reptile safety... It also notes about how heat rocks should be used for larger species that eat large meals - "The Repticare® Rock Heater replicates this "heated stone" feature found in nature and is very useful for reptiles that eat large meals (ie: mice and rats) like Pythons, Boas, Monitor Lizards, Tegus, etc."
