Well he is still a bit squirmy when I hold him but temperament wise he is not too bad he has hissed at me once when i first got him. I have just been introducing my hand to tank, he hasn't been running away or coming over to investigate. Just need to let him get used to me. They had wild ones at the pet shop but you could definately see a difference, they did not interact in anyway and were rather aggresive. Cannot say much as you had yours longer than me but i'm sure with time he will grow to you. I think main thing with Loki as he has recognised me as the person providing food so he knows im not a threat. I'm sure Varanus has some better advice though!
Razaiel I think its great to be able to talk monitor and exchange ideas and info in a polite fashion. Huge fan of that stuff. Yes sometimes the substrate can get compacted down and you have to add a little more. Not really that big of a deal though. If he's digging and making a shelter thats pretty good. True sometimes they dig pretty deep tunnels but not always. The water bowl is a constant source of aggravation. They love mucking around in there. As far as handling I fall into the minority also. I dont follow the "beat it into submission" routine. You may get them not to bite you, but at what cost? And are they tame? Lets take a look at the two methods. First you have the usual one that you see all the time. Take the lizard out every day and hold it. For longer and longer periods as the days go by. I dont doubt that after a while the lizard might stop biting. But what exactly is going on? You are a large animal, a predator in the eyes of the lizards. So you open the cage and try to pick it up. Lets assume its still wild so it tries to run. It cant so it tries to fight. But you restrain it so after a while it goes limp, just gives up. The same way a lizard will often freeze if you place it on its back. It has no idea how to deal with this situation so it gives up. Now, the next day you do it again. And again and again. You're teaching the monitor that every time you approach its cage you're going to pick it up. It doesnt like that. And now it doesnt like you. But after a while it realizes it cant resist this juggernaut so it stops fighting. But is it tame? I dont know. Lets look at option two which is now what you are doing. You're letting the monitor be a monitor. He is learning to TRUST you not fear you. This method takes much longer. Its a slow process. I do not handle my monitors unless I have to. And they are not mean. They do not bite. They will take food from my hands, they climb on me when I enter the larger enclosures. The little guys will poke their heads out of the Retes stack to see what Im doing. Or come over and sniff around my hand looking for a hand out. They have no fear of me as long as I dont do something silly like lift up a hide spot and scare the crap out of them. When I do have to handle them they are fine. No, they are not lap tame. However they can be lifted up and moved around without much trouble. But they are lively and fiesty. Sometimes Ill get a hiss but they dont try to kill me. Of course I have one bad apple in the bunch but thats gonna happen no matter what you do. I have a red ackie from hell. He is plotting my demise as we speak. Im talking about the adults here. Hatchlings tend to be shy and flighty but thats their nature. Although they quickly learn where the food comes from and then its game on. I think there's a difference between not biting and TRUST. A lot of people are so interested in not getting bit they are missing the big picture. Monitors bite, thats what they do. In order for them not to bite you they have to trust you and EVEN THEN you still might get tagged if you screw up. But overall I would rather have a healthy, vibrant monitor than a lap dog. Id rather just let them be and observe them for what they are. As Ive said before a monitor acting like a monitor is just about the coolest thing going. If they're constantly being poked, prodded and harrassed you're not going to get to see that. I like the way you're going about it. Little by little. Crocdoc has a video where his lace monitor(Pretty sure its a lacie) will lift its front leg to allow him to put his hand under it and lift it out of the cage. The lizard learned that behavior. It likes to come out of the cage and move about and it has learned that this large primate is not a threat. Im sure that took time and patience but its sure cool to see. I think a lot of folks mean well but they're trying to turn monitors into something they arent. Bunnies or kitties. Thats all fine and dandy but if I wanted a bunny Id get a bunny. I like the monitor attitude. This is just my opinion I know not everyone will agree and thats just fine.
Thank you - that is just what I needed - reassurance that I was indeed doing the right thing. Sometimes on some of these forums you start to doubt yourself. I have indeed seen crocdoc's video where the lacey comes out onto him (I think it was varanus.nl - I look there but don't post). It's truly like a breath of fresh air when you know of other people doing the "let the monitor be a monitor thing" - and are as happy as you are at letting the monitor be. I believe I have never been bitten because I haven't tried to force him to do anything he truly doesn't want to do. If he has come out to run around (which he doesn't want to do that often) I tend to pick him up using a towel (just in case) before putting him back in. I used to try and educate people on my local UK forum about letting their new baby monitor be instead of grabbing it every 5 mins - but tbh when there's so many others that say do the opposite - you kinda fall into the "why bother they're not going to listen to me" mode - and tbh I often don't want to open those threads at all. I'd love a lacey one day but I think space will be the issue - also there aren't many about in Europe - though I've heard of one breeder in Germany who has them.
Important update: Loki had his first pinkies this morning and he absolutely loved em. He ate two without any problems. I crushed the skulls to ensure he wouldnt have any issues but he certainly didn't! Thinking pinkies twice a week and crickets in between. Will monitor his weight and increase if needed! Cheers for all your help Varanus. Oh yeah and just been down B&Q and picked up some top soil so his viv getting a clean and a substrate change tonight!
Well tank is disinfected and soil and sand mix is in. He been sleeping in his cave but tomorrow morning we'll see how he likes his new burrow friendly tank!
Raz: Yes, I tend to do the same. I will try to offer some friendly advice if I can but some folks will ask a question and then not like the answer. They just want to hear that everything is perfect. So if thats the case I dont push the issue. Such is life. One of the worst things you can do is harrass a baby lizard. When they get a little older sure they can TOLERATE handling a little better. But the hatchlings freak out. Whenever someone gets a hatchling, either from me or someone else, I always use the rule "Dont touch it for a month". I dont say dont touch it at all since thats not reasonable and unless you're a hardcore monitor person lets face it most people want some interaction with their lizards. Especially if it is a one of a kind pet and not part of a group or collection. I understand that. So I go with the one month thing. Not everyone likes to hear this but in the long run they are usually much happier. Then if after a month the lizard is eating, drinking, growing and trashing the enclosure you know you're off to a good start and can start some slow getting to know you kinda stuff. I wish I had a nickel for every person who told me their lizard wont eat and when I start asking questions I find out they are carting this thing all over the place. One guy showed me a picture of a savannah wearing a Santa hat. A Santa hat!! Gimmee a break. Please save the glamour shots until the lizard is much older. And even then, spare their dignity And yeah I know the Santa hat thing is kinda funny but lets get the lizard eating first and then we can play dress up. I wouldnt mind a pair of lacies myself. Very rarely available. Im pretty much happy with what I have right now. But if the opportunity presented itself at the right time who knows. I know FR works with lacies here in the states. Perhaps some others not sure. The only monitors I know of being produced in any numbers are ackies. Got some argus around too. Few others here and there. But a lot of the "captive born" or "farm raised" stuff are just wild caught animals or, at best, captive hatched from wild caught females. Right now what I would really like realistically speaking of course are some pilbara. Similar to the Kimberlys. Or some perenties, LOL! Yeeeeah that'll happen Dekor: Good, good. We got pinikies in the house. Once he starts feeding regularly on rodents and gets up to fuzzies you're gonna start seeing some serious growth. I wouldnt worry too much about crushing the pinkie skulls. At least as far as the monitor is concerned. They arent going to bother him. However if you wish to reduce the suffering of the prey animal and get him used to dead food right from the start thats not a bad thing. Although my guys could care less. Live, dead, fresh killed, frozen/thawed, they dont give a hoot. Just bring on the meat. New subtrate too. You're gonna spoil him. I changed some substrates today. I dump the excess soil in my garden. Monitor poo very good for plants. You should have seen my tomotoes this year. Spectacular! Plus I had an interesting encounter. I was cleaning the Kimberlys and one of them was lurking on a branch over my head. I gave him an eyeball and he seemed to be relaxed so I just ignored him. Then out of the blue he jumps on my head. So I try to grab him and he jumps back on his branch. Then gives me a look like "What the Hell just happened?" Man, I love these little nutballs.
Ha ha brilliant, well woke up this morning at usual time around 8 to get light and heat going and went back to sleep. Woke up at 9 with him staring at me for food as he does. Had a look round the tank and as usually he had trashed the place. Only problem so far with the soil is his water bowl. Getting very dirty very quick. Any tips? Was thinking another smaller water dish for him to drink in as his large one he swims in mostly. Those crazy Kimberlys!
At last! People giving great advice, and actually helping eachother in the monitor forums. Something we haven't seen for a long time. Thanks everyone!
Aye, Varanus is fast becoming the Monitor King here! Can't fault the advice he's giving! Luke you going Basildon?
King, eh? Maybe court jester. I dunno about king. Im just a funnel for information I have gathered and put to use from folks far more knowledgeable than I. Dekor I WISH I had some tips about dirt in the water bowl! My water bowls are swimming with dirt. Im constantly changing them. Ive tried a few different things but have all but given up. Some folks have tried putting the bowl on an elevated platform which will reduce the amount of dirt in there but they will still drag some in. And having the bowl high can be a bit of a pain. Also if they are strong enough they will knock it off the platform. The idea of one for drinking and one for bathing wont work because they wont follow the rules. Problem is if they can fit in the water bowl they will crawl in, then go walkabout, then go back in and all the dirt they have collected washes off. I just dont know, lol. Perhaps someone else has a brilliant idea. If you do find a solution let me know Im all ears. You dont really NEED a bowl large enough for the lizard to enter. You can just give him a good soak in a seperate tub from time to time. But they do seem to enjoy having a water container that they can fit in so thats a decision you will have to make. One thing to watch for as long as we're talking water bowls is if the lizard is constantly in the bowl he may be telling you the cage is too dry. Not humid enough, not enough moisture in the substrate or some combination thereof. That is not to say if he takes an occaisonal swim you have a problem because you most likely do not. But if he spends days on end submerged in his water bowl you may want to investigate. Monitors will very often give clues that something is wrong and we just have to learn how to read them. The dirt is a messy business no doubt about it. It gets into everything, including the water bowl. Its also very heavy as compared to other substrates which makes changing it a bit of a bother. But its a sacrifice we make for the good of our ungrateful tenants.
Yeah he managed not to make to much more mess today but has already started some borrowing which is good to see! Handled him for say ten minutes today, trying not to overdo him because as you say is nice to have them be ok for you to hold them but don't want him to be a lapdog! Will get some more photos once he's shed, perhaps some bathtime ones too as he does enjoy his swims!
I think I second you as being the King here, Varanus - it is good to have somebody as knowledgeable as you here to ask questions of - I often experience my sav doing something and think - I wish I knew why he was doing that! My sav has a water bowl he can fit his whole self into - he has an even larger one at weekends when I have time to clean it out, and making a big muddy mess is his favorite hobby. He doesn't spend long in there - I've rarely seen him in it but I know he goes there as the evidence is spattered all over the walls. One thing is he creates his own humidity! Had a major workout this morning - nothing like rearranging a monitor viv and hauling dirt for half an hour in 100 degree temps to get the cardio system going :wink: Then he has the audacity to try and tail whip me when I put him back in :shock:
Ok, after reading this and having Claymore for one week I just want to confirm I should let him eat as much as he wants. In one week he has eaten 5 pinkies, 5 fuzzies, and 25 supermorms. Yesterday he slammed down 2 fuzies and looked at me like where is the rest LOL. I am going to start buying frozen hoppers in bulk online, and once I get back into my own place maybe start breading some to feed on my own. Any way he is 15" long seems to be happy very happy. He has put on a good weight since bringing him hom from the pet store. Does this amount sound about right, or should I try and give him even more, or add some ground turkey as mentioned earlier. Should the ground turkey be raw or cooked when giving it to him? Thanks, Rob
Monitors eat a LOT. A lot of keepers underfeed their animals. Ive read many posts when someone says they have a water, its 2' long and 2 years old. Oof. If hes gulping down 2 fuzzies and looking for more by all means give him more. If he's hungry, feed'em. As long as he has the right conditions to digest his food he will be just fine. Keeping a monitor at the proper temps makes this process go pretty quick. Its not unusual for a monitor to eat, bask for a while, poop and be ready to eat again. So if he wants to eat feed him. When he's a fully grown adult you can keep an eye on his weight gain. But for now you for nothing to worry about. Ring the dinner bell and have at it. I have some ackies that are probably smaller than your sav and they will nail 2-4 fuzzies(depending on the size) at a clip no problem. And come back in the evening for some roaches. And the argus...well lets not even go there, LOL! They will eat your arm if given the chance. Ive seen all sorts of monitors but Ive never seen a feeding response quite like theirs. They are machines. Its hard to say exactly how much to feed. I just feed them until they no longer show an interest in eating. That takes the guesswork out of it. The ground turkey was a suggestion if no whole prey animals were available. The base of the diet should be insects and rodents. Or chicks, things like that. Whole animals. If you're in a pinch and just need to get a meal into him then I would use fresh ground turkey as opposed to some of the other things I hear like cat food or canned monitor food which is just low quality dog food with a picture of a monitor on the can sold for 5x the price. But it shouldnt be a big part of the diet and you can easily exclude it entirely. Its just an easy, convenient food that I use here and there just to fill in. It can be fed raw. Ill say one little thing about obesity since I think it gets a lot of heat. I feed my animals a lot. They arent fat. They are solid and full bodied but not obese. To make an adult, large monitor obese you need an incredible amount of food. More than you can imagine. And you need subpar conditions. If the animal has enough heat to digest that food, enough room to move around and enough stimulation...burrowing, digging,climbing,breeding,roaming,whatever...chances are it will not get fat. And again some species are more prone to this than others. Ive never seen a fat green tree monitor. Or a fat timor. Ive seen a few fat savs in my day. But Ive seen a LOT more skinny ones than fat ones. And I mean a LOT more. Just something to think about.
