Hello everyone. I am new to reptiles and this forum. Just recently i bought 2 mali uromastyx. i bought them 3 weeks ago. i only planned on getting one but they looked soo in love i had to get them both... soo... 3 days later i notice him biting her neck and back and her not caring or doing anything about it. so i look it up... yep its breeding time and that means she is rdy to mate... ohh goody 40 baby lizards running around. dont take my sarcasm outa context though lol cause i am very excited and happy. well anywayz.... today i noticer her being alot fatter then usual... and sure enough is a sign of pregnancy. she is very lazy she alwayz had the male right beside her and burrowns all the way to the bottom of the tank. so today i wen and got more sand added 2 layers so just incase she can burrow deeper. i feel rlly bad cause i just added it and she is asleep and the male isnt yet so i pulled her out added sand and a new burrow thing and set her down half asleep and set her little hut over her. hopefully i didnt hurt her messing with her whiole she was asleep or stress her or anything. but maybe tomorrow she wil burrow deeper. so what do i do. how do i kno for sure if she is pregnant and if she is what do i do to prepare? also read they may stop eating and die so i hand feed her lima beans to make sure she is eating.
Hello, Welcome to the forum and uro's. My first question is....How old is she? They do not reach maturity till they are 3 Years old, if she is less than that, be prepared for vet visits and bills, she may have problems during and after laying, assuming she is pregnant. If you will answer the following questions accurately then we may be able to help you. What size is tank? What UVB and heating are you using ?, please state make, type, wattage of everything you use. What type of sand are you using? What are the temperatures ? warm end, cool end, and directly under basking spot. How are these temperatures being taken and with what type of thermometer? Dial, stick-on, digital with probe or infrared temp gun. Diet. Please stop feeding lima beans these are very poor nutritionally. The Calciumhosphorus ratio should be 2:1 Lima beans are 1:4 and also very high in Potassium. You need to be giving them both Endives, Escarole, Dandelion leaves as staple diet along with Bok-choy, collard greens, turnips greens on a rotational basis. These should be washed and the excess shaken off but left wet, they get all they water needs from the veg. There should be NO water dish in tank. These should be dusted or sprinkled with Calcium powder without added D3 5x times a week and dusted with multi-vits, such as Herptivite 2x a week. A good site for nutritional food is HERE, although it's for Bearded Dragons it applies to uro's as well. If they are both in same tank (which is NOT advisable) you need several low hides, at warm, cool and central of tank. Assuming she is gravid, then really she should really be in a tank on her own. With a large deep container, at least 6" deep so she can dig, burrow into to it, at the warm end. Please answer the questions fully, it will then help us to help you, to make sure your new Mali is OK.
Thank you for the reply. i have soooo many questions lol. the basking light is a 100W and the UV light is a 75W. the night glow is 75W. tank is a 20G. i cannot affor seperating them and i think i may have needed to do my research before i got both of them but i am gonna take the responsiblity. the repti cal i have is D3 so dont use it?? the bottom layer is generic petsmart desert sand the mid layer is 4 bags of clay burrowing substrate from a local reptile shop and the top laye is 2 - 3 inches of Ground english walnut shells for breeding. I am not sure how old they r :lol: i just got them and they didnt kno. im start mixing their greens better instead of just one type of green and im scared all she will eat is lima beans... whats a rlly tasty veggy for them like lima beans cause she will eat them outa my hand. is there a way i can tell how old they r?? i only have one thermometer in the tank and its a digital probe. 90+ and gets up to 101 top basking during the afternoon and with nightglow on its at 82 right now. ima go get another thermometer for the cold side tomorrow. the soil looks a little over 6 inches deep. im in a super little town and there is no exotic pet veet in town i kno of or anywere near me. valdosta georgia 31602... i dont even know how to look for one lol i tried a yahoo search but idk wat im looking for lol. man this would be soo much easier if i could give u a call... cause im am tripping out cause i love these uro... i feel soo gay cause i feel like cryin reading all this stuff about the female dieing cause she wont eat wen pregnant and i am such a softy for animals especially my own man plz help meh.
Hi, I'm sorry but you are not going to like this reply and if you can't afford to seperate them, then the changes you need to make are going to be very diificult and I really dont know how you can do it. It's going to cost you a lot of $$ to make things right. If you dont make these changes, you will have 2 very sick uro's, they will not show it imediately as reptiles are very good at hiding illness. Here goes. How old they are is difficult to determine, what is their length nose to tip of tail and any idea what weight they are? A digital gram scale is best but standard kitchen scale will do to give an idea. The tank is waaay to small, you need at least a 90 or 125g tank minimum or a "footprint" of 48" x 24" floor area. Temperatures should be 85F at cool end, 95/100F at warm end and a basking spot of around 130F, this is impossible to achieve in a 20g tank. If your house doesn't drop below 70F at night there is no need for any night heating, the "night light" should not be used, they need total darkness or it upsets their sleep pattern. If night heating is required then a CHE (ceramic heat emitter) should be used on a thermostat to control output. You need to get rid of the walnut shells, these are dangerous, if ingested can cause compaction in bowel leading to serious problems. The sand you are using in fine for them. If you only have calcium with D3 then use it for now, till you can get some without. It is also very important to use multi-vits as stated in last post. Try lentils soaked to soften them they may eat that as treat. You can also add a small pot of finch seed. If you use the veg I suggested and the other things off that site I gave you, they are the best and should readily accept them but without the insects, uro's are strictly vegetarian. Can you tell us what that UVB light is? you say it's 75w but what make, type is it. You really need a tube type say a ReptiSUN 10% UVb or better still a Mega-ray which is a combined UVB/heat lamp but this is impossible to use in a 20G tank, only use in a large tank. For a vet try looking on here Herpvets There is another but I cant remember, hopefully MimC will post and give you the other site. I know this is what you dont want to hear but it's vital you make the changes, if you cant then it's decision time, change or give them up, it's harsh I know but it's reality.
No worries man, with good observation and care your female will pull through. I would make a couple suggestions off the bat... get at LEAST a 75 gallon tank for the 2 of them that is 48x18x18 at minimum they NEED space to roam and have climate zones and certainly with 2 of them sharing 20 gallons is kinda tough when your an adult, think of it like sharing a hospital bed with someone else. Another suggestion do not use walnut shells at all this WILL cause compaction and WILL kill the Uro, in place of the shells use dampened not wet playsand in a plastic container about 12 inch long 8 inch wide and 8 inch tall you can get it at Walmart fill it 6 inches with the dampened playsand and put it on the warm end of the tank for her to lay her eggs in, she will burrow much happier and the moisture will form a little den in there for her. Eating drops like a weak hearted person seeing blood during their gravid time, so you will have to monitor and even possibly force feed her (consult the vet before attempting). If you find a vet that handles reptiles period they will handle a Uromastyx just refer them to Uromastyxworld.com they have a section designated to the health care this sight is designated more so for the professional (vets and established breeders) than the everyday keeper of Uromastyx as they even state in the rules that no nonsense is tolerated and it is not to be treated as a common forum. Best of wishes and good luck.
Ok.... so heres wat i have done so far... i have went today and amazing found a 55 gallon which as good as they can have for right now and bought it and new sand to get them outa the shells. i have built them a better basking set p with rocks and gonna get a heat emitter soon... i will reply soon with their length but this 55 will have to do for now. they seem healthy and im getting them new food from that list tomorrow. i have also bought 2 more thermometer so i will have 3 total and can freely move the digital to chek the werever n the tank i need to. they seem in good health now. i cant afford a vet and there is not one around me for about 100 miles... so i will watch them carefully and keep make sure they stay at good health. they are asleep now and ill move them into the new tank wen they get up n the morning. thanks for all the replys and please keep checking my post for updates cause i still have a ton of questions. and also they dont need to be split apart right now right?? or is it necessary because i mean this tank is LARGE.
Hello - sorry for my delay in ading to this thread. First and foremost - the specifications onthe UVB are crucial. You mentioned its a 75w - which doesnt make a lot of sense because most UVB bulbs are fluorescent and are not rated in watts but rather will be called 8.0, 10.0 etc. The brand and variety of bulb is CRUCIAL! Is the UVB bulb a fluorescent tube? A coil? What brand is it? This is SO SO SO important. It is always important but is even more so with a possible gravid female. Some bulbs are marketed as "full spectrum" and these would be rated in "watts" - full spectrum just means visable light, however, and these bulbs provide NO uvb. An easy way to tell if you have a uvb bulb or a full spectrum is to look at how much you paid for it. UVB bulbs will cost at least 40$, full spectrum bulbs are likely to be much cheaper. If you still have the box that would be best because the brand, variety and strength of the bulb are all important. There are a ton of UVB bulbs out there and some are good but some are bad or even dangerous. As for the tank - its unfortunate that you cannot afford a larger tank right now - a 55gallon tank is really still far too small for these guys. A 75g minimum should be given for one uro. Its generally not recomended to house them together for a multitude of reasons. As soon as you can afford to get another set up then you need to separate them - or return one to the store. If you are trying to avoid the cost of vet bills then trust me when i say its cheaper to set them up separately and correct then it is to try and house them sub-par have them get ill and NEED to see the vet. Either way they should definately be separated as soon as possible to decrease their stress levels and prevent future breeding. I definately agree that the walnut shells need to go immediately. Also - you never mentioned the age or size of these guys. If they are of adult size then its possible you may have a gravid female....however if they are still young then its less likely, or rather - its more likely that if she is gravid you are going to have issues. Determining their approximate age is important...how long are they from tip of their snout to tip of tail? How many grams do they weigh? Can you post pics? On a separate note.... If the female does turn out to be gravid and she lays the eggs the i HIGHLY recomend that you freeze and dispose of the eggs and not hatch them. This may seem a bit extreme but you are still just begining to get a grip on their care and you are already behind the ball in your care for the two that you have. You n eed to focus on getting the correct set ups for the two you already have, as well as mastering their care before you try to deal with housing, feeding and otherwise caring for a bunch of babies. Also, if financially you are unable to even provide the proper cage size and set up for the two existing lizards then it will be a challenge to do so for the babies. Just because they are going to be small does not mean that they need cheaper set ups - their lighting requirements and temp requirements are the same - they will need large tanks to achieve the temp gradients, expensive lighting, and multiple set ups as they need to be housed in very small groups. Plus there is the big issue of finding quality homes for them - as you are learning these arent the easist or cheapest lizards to take care of so it may be hard to find good homes. Save yourself the trouble of dealing with all of this - as well as avoid the chances of having unhealthy babies due to in-adequate caging etc and do not hatch out the eggs. I dont want to sound harsh at all - i just want to make sure you understand what you are getting into....and make sure that you are able and willing to fully commit to the long term care of these guys. Please continue to make the great changes you have been, and definately let us know about the UVB bulb. Also, save your pennies now for another cage and as soon as physically possible move them both into their own 75g tank (these usually run about 150$) Keep us posted - pics of your guys would be fantastic!
I am in a hurry this morning so i havent been able to fully read ur reply. what type of uvb do i need to buy. idk wat kind i have now its just a UV light and looks like my basking bulb and is blue in color from petsmart. what kind do i need. specifics plz and i kinds need it in round bulb form
alright. well im sitting in class now writing this on my phone so if my spelling is off a little please forgive. I am trying to get some more cash and get them a bigger bulb. I was finaly able to read your post and I understand. it will be about 8 or 9 est tonight or tomorrow night and ill take some picks and their size and weight. thanks for all the help. im goin to the reptile pit tomorrow and c if I can't find a real uvb bulb cause I paid 10 dolla I think for the one I have now and im also gonna get another basking light so they will have 2 basking lights on the hot side and the uvb on the other. I can't get rid of em my girlfriend got em for me and she loves em as I have fallen in love with them too. I am truly dedicated to these animals and am upset I don't have the money to fully provide but I willl do the best I can. why will they get sick in the same tank as one another. ohh and the 55 gallon has turned out nice I thnk I just gotta get more clay/sand subtrate for them to burrow better. but like I said thanks again and keep the replies coming please I am soaking in everthng that's said.
ok so i have made a list of supplies i am going to order in the near future. i am going to get http://www.reptilesupply.com/product.php?products_id=340 to go in http://www.reptilesupply.com/product.php?products_id=2573 lemme kno if thats gonna be ok for him and her. also i am going with a 150w basking light with a 60w heat emmiter for the hot spot and put that uv on the other end to keep it warm
As far as UVB bulbs - if you need something that is "round" as opposed to tube then you have to go with a mercury vapor bulb. These bulbs give off heat and UVB at the same time and can be very useful - however they are extremely powerful so care must be taken to ensure they are placed in compliance with the manufacturors recomendations. The best brand of Mercury Vapor bulb is the Mega-Ray - which is a available from www.reptileuv.com. These are the best bulbs on the market currently. The powersun which you are looking at used to be a good brand, although they recently changed their bulbs and there have been some reports of eye issues and other issues caused by the intensity of the UVB. Depending on when the bulb you purchase was made it may or may not be fine. The mega-ray costs a little more (40-50$) but i would just go with it because you know its safe, high quality etc etc. To save some money - dont bother ordering the dome lamp offline, instead just buy one at home depot, walmart etc - it will be much cheaper than the one online. Just make sure it has a ceramic base and is rated for the wattage bulb you will be using. I buy all my light fixtures at walmart or home depot and save a bundle. Temps and lighting are extremely important (as you can tell, lol). The set up you are describing - with the basking light and heat emitter on one side and the mercury vapor bulb on the other side would likely be too much heat actually. As important as high temps are for a uro, its equally important that there is ample cool space as well - or the lizard will overheat. Your temperture ranges need to be as follows: basking site 120-130 degrees, hot side substrate temps 100degrees, cool side temps 80-85 degrees. The easiest way to achieve this gradient is to put all sources of heat on one side of the cage, and NO heat source on the other end - this allows a natural gradient of temps. Uros can be tricky to heat because they need such a high basking temp, if you are not careful its easy to overheat the entire tank - which is very dangerous. To add to this conundrum - uros require hides that are low, tight and secure - not big basking branches such as bearded dragons or other climbing/basking lizards. The best way to accomidate their hide needs and their temp needs is to build hides using slate tiles, bricks etc - so that you can make them nice and low and tight - and then stack these hides on top of eachother, making a tower that has many hides, and a basking spot on top that is higher up. This way you can get a nice hot basking spot at the top of the tower without overheating the tank. The point being that its much easier to get 130 degree basking spot on a basking platform that is 12inches in the air than one that is 4inches up. Make sense? Here are some pictures of basking "towers" i have made for my uro - to explain to you waht i mean: I hope the pictures help :-D So - you will need to play around with different bulbs to achieve the best temperatures. Your tank is quite tall so you may need multiple bulbs - but those mercury vapors do throw off a lot of heat. In addition to temps - lighting is equally as important. You need the tank to be nice and bright. Although you may have all the heat sources on the hot end, you will need to have some light source on the cool end as well to keep the tank from being too dark. I would suggest going with the MVB and a regular household bulb (if you need extra heat) in the basking spot and then use regular household coil fluorescents in the middle and cool sides of the tank for light. These bulbs do not throw any heat - only light and fit into a cheap dome lamp you can buy at walmart/home depot etc. Make sure as you are getting your hides, temps, lighting etc established that you are using a digital thermometer (it MUST be digital) or a temp gun to get your readings - NOT an analog or stick on thermometer - EVER - those are very inacurate. And make sure that you are measuring the entire cage - basking spot, ambient hot and cool side. As for the tank situation - reptiles in general are not social creatures. In the wild they may congregrate together for certain reasons such as breeding, or in some cases to pig pile and keep warm at night - however this important thing to remember is that in the wild they have the access to get away from each other. They can choose to spend some time together if they need to, but they dont have to - and are able to escape each other when they need to. In captivity - if you keep to reptiles in a cage together you are changing everything...forcing them to be together with no means of escape. Especially when you consider that most cages have only one basking spot and only a few hides - which further forces them to spend time together in order to maintain adequate basking temperatures etc etc. Even in a large cage with lots of hides, they are still in a cage and have limited options if they want to escape each other. Forcing them to spend time together stresses them out because of these reasons - while some lizards may live this way without any huge issues, its still stressful on them. You can end up with aggression issues, or dominance issues - where one lizard dominants the other causing the less dominant to not eat as much, or to give up the best basking spots etc. In a situation where you have a male and a female lizard you also have the problem of breeding - breeding is very stressful on the females...in the wild they will meet up to mate during the appropriate season, then separate again and not breed further until breeding season comes around again. In the meantime the female can lay the eggs and then recover from the draining process by regaining weight she has lost and rebuilding her calcium supplies (can you imagine how much calcium it takes to make those eggs!). In a tank situation - again you are forcing the two lizards to co-habitate together at all times...the male may breed with the female more times than he should in a year, depriving her of the necessary period of rest needed to regain strength, weight, calcium etc. Constant breeding can lead to weight loss, calcium deficiency, parasites and other stress related illness. When keeping reptiles in captivity our goal should be all about reducing stress in their environment. Stress for a reptile is somewhat different than in humans - inadequate temperatures, lighting, hides, tank set up, diet, being forced to co-habitat, overbreeding, and excessive handling are all stressors that should be avoided. Stress leads to disease. If you had a very large tank (im talking WAY bigger than a 125g) with multiple basking spots, tons of hides etc - then it would certainly be less stressful two have multiple lizards in one tank - but when you get right down to it...its still a tank. People do have sucess keeping multiple reptiles together - but they always run a risk of illness, stress etc. this practice should ALWAYS be left to people with vast amounts of experience with the particular herp they are housing. That way the keeper is very familiar with normal and abnormal behaviors in the species, and can pick up on very early signs of illness that would be missed by a less experienced keeper. Catching illness early and treating it at that point is much easier than waiting till it gets more serious - and reptile illness is hard to catch early if you dont have ample experience because they are GREAT at hiding symptoms. For your particular situation, i think your animals will be much better off housed separately - and i think your herp keeping experience will be a more positive one overall, as you will be much less likely to have issues with illness. I hope all this information helps - and makes sense. Any info we provide is in the sake of helping your experience to be a positive one and your uros to be healthy! Cant wait to see pictures :lol: P.S - Reptiles magazine had a really GREAT article this month about lighting - talking about why reptiles need certain lighting, heat etc...it was extremely informative and youm ay find it useful
pitures will be posted tonight of their tank and both of them and also she is 9 1/2 inches long from nose to tip of tail
Sorry, I've been behind with this topic. MimC has covered everything perfectly regards the UVB/MVB lamps. Most MVB's have a minimum distance they can be used at, most are 12", that is measured from the front surface of lamp to the surface of the basking spot. I would suggest that you dont have deep sand, it's harder to keep clean. Spot cleaning should be done every day or when they poop, then a complete change of substrate every 4 to 6 weeks. To help you understand the lighting/heating, I have uploaded the following picture. Please bear in mind, this vivarium is wood and is fully enclosed, apart from the front sliding doors, so the heating etc has to be controlled by a dimming thermostat (rheostat), rather than swapping lamp round to obtain correct temps. This vivarium is 6ft long x 3ft high x 2ft deep, it houses 1x Egyptian Uromastyx, as egyptians grow to up to 30" as against 14" or so of a Mali, hence the need for a large unit, having said that 2x Mali's could live in that size and be healthy. The 50w halogen, 100w halogen and the 100w daylight are all connected to the dimming thermostat. It should be noted that the MVB has to run direct from mains they can't be controlled, except to an on/off timer, for day/night periods. My setup Would just like to say Well Done for making the changes, it's not ideal but at least 100x better that your original setup, keep up the good work :lol:
they are a ton more active now i think lol. they seem to chill on their rock basking spot together. the temp is alot higher now about 100 on the basking side so far. should get higher tomorrow cause i just pulled in the 150W baskinglight. thx for the tip on getting the ficture at home depot ALOT cheaper then reptile pit or pet smart. here is the link to the photobucket pictures :lol: http://s261.photobucket.com/albums/ii56/treyclash/Uromastyx/ Also when i got home she was all hiding and not active but i picked her up messed with ehr a bit and tried to feed her. she wont eat anythng outa my hand right now but i got squash and more turnip greens instead of lima beans. i hope she keeps eating... but yeah she is active right now and runnin around and basking with him and chilling. check out the pics and wat r some signs of stress. i wana get another tank and seperate but that just cant happen right now... also y do they insists on trying to climb the glass and scratch on it??
The scratching behavior is just because they are SUPER active lizards and are trying to roam more - another reason why they do best in very large tanks...these guys are ACTIVE!!! You definately will want to get the basking spot up - although you may find that easier once you get your mercury vapor as well. As far as eating - leave a dish of greens in the tank at all times, if you want you can also leave a shallow dish of the following mixture: millet seeds, pretty bird finch pellets, rep-cal iguana pellets, mazuri tortoise pellets (ground up in a coffee grinder), and 10-bean soup mix with the kidney beans removed (ground up in a coffee grinder) this mixture adds a little more protein to their diet and is acceptable as part of a balanced diet of greens - but should not be fed exclusively. Im not sure if this has been touched on or not due to all the husbandry issues - but Uros are not a hands-on lizard and should generally not be handled. They dont appreciate it and it REALLY stresses them out - handling should be reserved only for medicating, weighing and other necessary activities. Handling to attempt to hand feed are not going to cause them to eat more and will actually stress them and cause them to eat less. Just leave the veggies out in a dish and the seed mixture if you are using it, correct the other husbandy issues and they should eat. The UVB bulb will effect the appetite as well - when you get that you may see an improvement in their overall demenor, including appetite. If, after the husbandry is corrected and they have had a couple of days with good temps, good UVB and no handling they are not eating then you should really step up the effort to get them separated, as that would be the other stressor to eliminate, as well as look for a reptile vet. Uros generally dont accept change readily, so its often takes a few days after any major changes before they will relax enough to eat and behave normally. During this period where you are still tweaking their husbandry they will probably not want to eat much - all these changes are very stressful...thats why its so important to get the husbandry fixed quickly. Another thing you can do to improve their sense of security and increase their chances of eating is to paper the back and sides of the tank - this helps to m ake them feel much more secure.
I just checked out the pictures - unfortunately those two uros look pretty awful. They are extremely thin and dont look to be in good condition at all. You are already on the right track to improving their husbandry - you must continue this process as quickly as possible. Considering how thin they are, it wouldnt be a bad idea to have a fecal sample checked at the vet for parasites, would could bea cause of the poor body condition. Hopefully with proper husbandry these guys will start to eat and improve and gain weight.
I agree with MimC they dont look healthy at all, very thin. You need to correct the UVB issue a.s.a.p. I dont think that 10$ 75w is any good, assumimg it is a UVB. Pile on the greens suggested on that beautiful dragons site we gave you and load with calcium w/o D3. and multi-vits. Judging by those pics, I do not believe she is gravid (pregnant), if she is then she is in serious trouble, she's no where near fit or strong enough to carry eggs. Check out those herp vet sites and find a good vet, even if if you have to use a local vet, give them a contact for a specialist and ask then at consult. All these changes are causing stress so stop handling and taking out of tank for photo sessions. As MimC stated they are a "to be looked at" lizard rather than cuddles. I'm very sorry if I seem harsh, dont mean to be, just thinking of the welfare of your uro's and what's best for them. You are already making changes which is fantastic but more need to be done. You have already noticed an improvement, it will be even greater once the changes we suggest are made.
kk thx for the replies. ima keep pileing in the greens and squash in the mornigs when i get up and hope they start getting better... i will stop holding them and let them get chill and relaxing. ima try to get that bulb in the next week or 2.... also spike the male is asleep in that big dune looking thing because it is hallow.. i hope he is ok sleeping inside that his tail is hanging out... i hope he doesnt get stuck... look on the newest pictures i uploaded and its the thing between the real rocks and their hut...
My step dad is building a HUGE tank. im talking like bigger then that 6 foot long on in the picture. so... anybody got any good idea lemme know
