Mali Uromastyx in 4-6 weeks

Discussion in 'Uromastyx' started by ikermalli, Sep 1, 2008.

  1. ikermalli

    ikermalli Well-Known Member

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    Hello,

    I am going to be getting a Uromastyx soon and I need some questions answered. I read some care sheets but I would rather ask here so I get the right information and I can ask more questions if need be so please do not tell me to go read a care sheet.

    Is a 40 gallon tank big enough for a Mali Uromastyx?
    Which UV bulbs do they use?
    How many hides do they need and which ones?
    What is the best substrate?
    Which heating methods should I use?
    Which thermostat should I use?
    What temps do they like (day and night)?
    How do you prepare foods?
    How often should you feed?
    What do they eat?
    Do they need a water dish (a lot of people say it's a preference and some say no as far as I have seen)?
    Do they like to be handled and taken out to run around?
    How big do they get?
    Are they lazy?
    Are they Diurnal or Nocturnal?
    How much does the set-up cost?
    What will I need for the set-up?
    Do you like Mali Uromastyx' or Bearded Dragons better?

    Sorry for all the questions, I just want to be prepared for a Uromastyx.
     
  2. JEFFREH

    JEFFREH Administrator

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  3. ikermalli

    ikermalli Well-Known Member

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    Anyone? Can anyone even answer SOME of my questions?
     
  4. JEFFREH

    JEFFREH Administrator

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  5. ikermalli

    ikermalli Well-Known Member

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    C'mon, I am sure someone here knows the answer.
     
  6. JEFFREH

    JEFFREH Administrator

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  7. ikermalli

    ikermalli Well-Known Member

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    Anyone? Anyone at all?
     
  8. JEFFREH

    JEFFREH Administrator

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  9. BDgex

    BDgex Embryo

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    First off, never be sorry for asking too many questions! It's good to do adequate research before buying a pet.

    Q:Is a 40 gallon tank big enough for a Mali Uromastyx?
    A: Yes, a 40 gallon breeder tank would be fine for an adult Uro. You could go with the 30 gallon breeder, the only difference between the 30 and 40 gallon breeder tank is the height. The 30 is 12" high and the 40 is 16". This will affect your basking temps and wattage. A standard 40 gallon aquarium measures: 48" x 12" x 16". A 40 gallon breeder measures: 36" x 18" x 16". The width is important because Adult Mali Uro's, depending on sex, can get anywhere from 11-16" long. Since the width of a standard tank is 12", it makes it harder for the Uro to turn around, and can cause spinal problems if his tail continually hits the tank wall or bends when he turns. Therefore, I urge you to go with the breeder. As a side note, if you are getting a very small baby, it is best to start out smaller first. Given too much space they can get overwhelmed. Some will hide more than bask, and others don't find their food bowl if the cage is TOO large. Mine was about 6" when I got her, and I had her in a 20 gallon long.

    Q:Which UV bulbs do they use?
    A: A debatable subject. Some say the UV has improved their lizards appetite and activity levels, others report nothing happens. I personally don't use a UV bulb, but do take my Uro outside to get some natural sunlight (ALWAYS use precaution when/if you take your lizard outside. They can run away, get into pesticides, pick up parasites, get scooped up by a predator bird, smashed by a dog, or bounced on by a cat. Accidents are prone to happen!) Sorry, I am very thorough. There are plenty of good choices out there, but I can't tell you which one is best. I have heard that Mercury and Acadia brands have good UV lights (reference: Deer Fern Farms).

    Q:How many hides do they need and which ones?
    A: Atleast two hides is ideal. Mine likes his half wooden log. If you can, add a tupperware with an adequate hole for your lizard to crawl in and out of, and create a burrow for him. Use some form of sanitized soil, breeder bedding, or other soft digging dirt-like substance. Uros are notorious burrowers, but mine doesn't want to have anything to do with it.

    Q:What is the best substrate?
    A: Another very debatable subject! I use ground/crushed walnut shell, but lots of people say that the sharp edges and undigestability of this substrate can cause/lead to death (stomach lacerations). I personally haven't had a problem with it and like it best. Others say bark, but it's very dusty and hard to pick out the feces. Calci-sand is another good choice, I used it in the past for many years, but have found it to be too dusty for my liking. There are plenty of people who complain of lizards dying from impaction from that too. All in all, I have found there is something wrong with every substrate out there, and people from all sides who debate each one. You will have to make a personal choice to what suits your lizard, lifestyle, and budget. Personally, I'd suggest letting your lizard make the decision, since he is the one living on it. If you see him ingesting a lot of the substrate, chose another one! Best of luck!

    Q:Which heating methods should I use?
    A:Heat lamp definitely! Uro's are basking lizards and they need a HIGH of 100-110F. Yes, they are the extreme heat lovers! If you cannot manage this temp. DO NOT get a Uro. Also, it depends on where you live, and if the tank is inside or outside. If at night the temp. drops below 70F, I'd suggest getting an undertank heat pad, but you'll have to pick up a regulator for that. They can be found at most pet stores with a reptile section or online. I'd also suggest getting a thermostat so you can check the day and night temps. DO NOT use heat rocks...they can burn your lizard.

    Q:Which thermostat should I use?
    A:I do not need a thermostat for my lamps, but I use an Exo-Terra Digital Thermometer to read the temps (it's one of the cheaper digital thermometers made for reptiles). You can purchase that from Petsmart. You can purchase others from Wal-Mart , or your local hardware store too. Some people use a brand called Acu-Rite, and it can be found in the hardware section.

    Q:What temps do they like (day and night)?
    A: Day - 100-110F. Some people say a max of 120F. Night - preferably in the mid to low 70's. Mine doesn't go below 79F at night, but I live in Florida, and mine are inside.

    Q:How do you prepare foods?
    A: Always wash the leafy greens and veggies you buy from your produce section before giving it to your lizard. Some people only buy the best, pesticide free produce, but I can't afford that. If you grow your own, make sure it is washed off well and don't use any pesticides on it. If snails are all over it...DON'T use it...the snail trails leave a deadly trail on it and can kill your lizard or cost a fortune to treat.

    Q:How often should you feed?
    A: Everyday is a MUST for young Uros, and everyday, to every other day for adults. I feed mine daily.

    Q:What do they eat?
    A: Uros are omnivores, meaning they eat both veggies and protein (crickets, waxworms, superworms, etc.) However, they range closer to being vegetarians than carnivores. Quite the opposite of a beardie. A beardie will eat about 80% crickets and 20% veggie matter when young. Then when older most people switch to veggies, but I give mine an 70/30 diet (mostly protein). I would say a Uro's diet would be 90% veggie matter and 10% protein. 10% might be even be too high... I'm not positive. Crickets or worms can be given as a treat once a week (twice max), this will help babies grow, but be sure not to over due it. They can cause serious health problems if given too many, too often. Mine won't tolerate even a tempting waxworm. He's nibbled one before, but never ate it.

    They majority of the Uro's diet will be a mix of dark leafy greens and veggies. I have heard that some of the best choices are bok choy, endive, mustard greens, and spring mixes. Romain is ok too, but not the highest in nutrient value. Feed kale, collard greens, and turnip greens sparingly (can cause health problems if fed too much, too often). Don't feed iceberg lettuce as a main component, it's pretty much all water, but if your lizard is dehydrated it's a great choice to give 1-2 times a week. Mine picks it out first, so don't give it often, or else he will be missing out on all his nutrition. Some people leave bird seed or finch food in there for the lizard to eat. Mine again, does not like it. Other people feed lentils and mixed beans (that have been crushed into a powder in a coffee grinder). Never feed seed or lentil/beans to a dehydrated lizard. It can cause kidney, liver problems. Also, you might want to pick up some vitamin or calcium powder. It's best to get one with multiple vitamins, especially, D3 because that helps absorb the calcium.

    Q:Do they need a water dish (a lot of people say it's a preference and some say no as far as I have seen)?
    A: Uros are the extreme desert dwellers. They are not used to drinking from water bowls, and most Uros are wild caught, not captive bred. I do not use a water dish. If you do, make sure it is very shallow. A healthy Uro should absorb all the water they need from their vegetables. Some prefer baths more than others. Mine gets a bath 2-3 times a week so he can ingest any extra water he may want/need. Some drink it (mostly when you're not looking at them) and others absorb it through their guts. A very thin Uro (the type people call roadkill, because they look so flat) means your lizard is dehydrated. I had a severe problem with this in the beginning, since my lizard is a very finicky eater (he sometimes doesn't eat), but bathing him has kept him hydrated. I left a bowl in his enclosure and he never touched it, he only ran through it and filled it with substrate, I had to clean it everyday.

    Q:Do they like to be handled and taken out to run around?
    A: Mine doesn't mind being handled. Mine is shy and freezes (doesn't move;plays dead) when stressed or brought into new areas. He warms up quickly though and then runs around. Some of the best species of Uros are the Ornate and the Saharan. I don't know much about the others, but I think Mali's are the most common/popular species. I think they are very tame and friendly too. I have heard some are aggressive, but I think those are the Egyptian ones. Yes, if you can, let him out to run around for short periods of time. Never leave him alone unattended. Too many accidents can happen!

    Q:How big do they get?
    A: The Mali should get between 11-16" in length. It depends greatly on the sex of your lizard. Females range smaller and males get bigger.

    Q:Are they lazy?
    A: That depends on your lizard. If their enclosure is adequate and the heat is high, you will most likely find them running around in their cage, but some are very lazy. Mine has his moments.

    Q:Are they Diurnal or Nocturnal?
    A:Diurnal.

    Q:How much does the set-up cost?
    A: Probably, quite a pretty penny! Owning reptiles isn't cheap. The proper (minimum size) cage can cost between $110-150. For a glass tank. Other set-ups that are fancier and "pretty to look at" usually cost around $250-400. That's just the cage! Not the UV lights, the heat lamps, the bulbs, substrate, rocks, bowls, etc. Look to spend around 200 to 300 bucks minimum, unless you get a great bargain somewhere.

    Q:What will I need for the set-up?
    A: Heat lamp, hides, food dish, substrate, rocks, logs, and anything else you'd like to add to make your new enclosure fancy. Also, purchase a thermostat (if you need it) and thermometer.

    Q:Do you like Mali Uromastyx' or Bearded Dragons better?
    A: I have both (well a Saharan, not a Mali)! Both are similar and very different in their own ways. I love both, but remember, Uro's are not beginner lizards. Since they are usually wild caught specimens they are more difficult to care for. Note: There are captive bred lizards, but you will probably NOT get one from a petstore. Most, if not all, are wild caught. Mine for instance is the most finicky eater I have ever met (in the lizard world). Making life on me difficult, but still worth owning one.

    I hope that answered your questions. If you have any further questions feel free to ask, and I will do the best of my ability to answer them. Deer Fern Farms has a great care sheet and list of all the Uro species, you should check it out for a reference and quick go-to guide. I think they are a very reliable source and lots of people recommend them.

    **I have had lizards for atleast 10 years and would call myself an intermediate herper. I am no expert! I have owned a Saharan Uromastyx for 2 1/2-3 years. My answers are based on my own personal experience, research, and individual choice.**
     
  10. JEFFREH

    JEFFREH Administrator

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  11. ikermalli

    ikermalli Well-Known Member

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    Thank you! Those were some AMAZING answers. I have had herps for half a year, so far my leopard gecko is doing well and when I decide on getting a new reptile I put about 15-20 hours of research into it. How many watts would my heat bulb have to be and do they need a certain colour? For my hides would it be okay to use some slate rocks and put tiles on top with a hole big enough for the uro?
     
  12. BDgex

    BDgex Embryo

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    You're welcome! Hmm...in a 40 gallon breeder...I'd say about a 100-150 watt basking bulb. Just make sure it hits the right temp. They don't need colored bulbs. Lizards can't see the red bulbs so they work well for heat at night or with nocturnal lizards. If you use rocks and build a cave-like hidey be absolutely sure that they don't move. If the lizard digs in the hidey and one of the rocks moves/falls it could end disastrous. So, if you want to make one like that, I'd suggest securing it with some kind of non-toxic glue or cement type stuff. I'm not sure what you should use that wouldn't be harmful for the lizard. Just make sure nothing can collapse or get moved.
     
  13. ikermalli

    ikermalli Well-Known Member

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    Alright, well now my mom is saying maybe and my dad is thinking about it. They think one lizard is too many
     
  14. TacomaAnne

    TacomaAnne RR Contest Winner

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    Not everything I am saying will agree with what others will tell you, but know that this is MY experience only.

    Is a 40 gallon tank big enough for a Mali Uromastyx?
    Recommended size is 48" x 24" x 24", but BIGGER is Better. They need alot of running room. This is also to ensure you get the right temperature gradient throughout the enclosure

    Which UV bulbs do they use?
    Alot of people use Mega-Ray Mercury Vapor Bulbs, they put out both UVB and Heat, others use a Basking lamp and flourescent light, it just depends on who you talk to and how much you want your electric bill to go up.

    How many hides do they need and which ones?
    At least two, one on each end of the enclosure. I have 3 in each enclosure.

    What is the best substrate?
    This can become a heated discussion ... personally, I have tried Papertowels, Millet Seed, Washed/sifted play sand from Home Depot and didn't like any of them. I now have my Uro's on Pool Filter Sand, it has NO dust, NO Dirt and NO rocks. Please stay away from the Calcium Sand, it has been known to discolor and even kill Uro's and other reptiles. Also, your substrate shouldn't be more than 1/2" deep.

    Which heating methods should I use?
    As stated above, you can use a Mega-Ray Mercury Vapor Bulb, they put out both UVB and Heat then just have regular 40w-60w household bulbs for lighting. OR .. you can use a basking bulb, Flourescent UVB Bulb and a household light for extra lighting.

    Which thermostat should I use?
    I don't use a thermostate, I use three Flucker's Thermometers w/ Built in Humidity readers ($14.99 at Wal-Mart). You need at least two, one for each end and a Infared Temp Gun ($25 at www.deerfernfarms.com and other places)

    What temps do they like (day and night)?
    I have done alot of experiementing with bulbs and temps and have found the following temps really make my Uro's come out earlier, stay out all day and are very active.
    Cool End = Low 80's
    Hot End - upper 90's, lower 100"
    Basking Spot = 125 - 135
    Ambient (Throughout enclosure) = 95 - 100
    Night time = 70 - 75, no lower - to achieve this, do not use an Under the Tank Heater, use a Ceramic Heat Emitter.

    How do you prepare foods?
    I just cut my greens into pieces I think they can handle. The smaller the Uro, the smaller the pieces should be. I also grate zucchini, squash and carrots in every 3-4 days to give them some variety.

    How often should you feed?
    Once per day, preferably in the morning before they wake up, then when them come out, they have fresh greens to munch on.

    What do they eat?
    Staples for their diet are: Curly Endive, Escrarole and dandelion leaves (from a store, not your yard). Things I rotate in on a weekly basis are Bok Choy, Squash, Zucchini and they get edible flowers on the weekends. You can also give them soaked lentils, green peas, lima beans as treats only

    Do they need a water dish (a lot of people say it's a preference and some say no as far as I have seen)?
    NO, they get their water from their greens

    Do they like to be handled and taken out to run around?
    NO, they can't be away from their heat source for more than a few minutes

    How big do they get?Depends on the species, females are smaller than males most times, but the average for a Mali Male is around 14-16", the Egyptians can get up to 24" long.

    Are they lazy?
    Mine aren't, they run around all day, basking, eating, pooping, glass dancing, basking etc... you get the drift. But they do get lazy about 2 weeks before they shed, they stop coming out as much and they cut down on their food intake.

    Are they Diurnal or Nocturnal?
    They are awake during the day and sleep at night.

    How much does the set-up cost?
    Be prepared to put out at minimum around $500 for the set up. This does not include the cost of the animal, any vet bills that may be necessary or your new increased electric bill. If you get the right stuff and the right set up to start, there is little to NO maintenance other than replacing bulbs.

    What will I need for the set-up?
    AT MINIMUM:
    Enclosure, 48" x 24" x 24"
    Basking Bulb w/ Separate UVB Bulb OR Mercury Vapor Bulb and some household lamps
    Ceramic Heat Emmitter - For Nighttime
    Timer, this so you don't have to get up early on the weekends and turn their lights on and they will go off automatically
    Substrate, if your Uro is UNDER 7", it should be on papertowels, after that it is your choice (See Above)
    Hides, At least Two, I use paver bricks and Slate
    Food Bowl
    Enclosure Decor (i.e. wood to climb on)
    Two Thermometers that measure humidity also
    One Infared Temp Gun

    Do you like Mali Uromastyx' or Bearded Dragons better?
    Never had Beardies, but I understand they are more of a cuddle animal, where Uro's are move of an "Observation" pet because they can't be away from their heat source.

    If you want to see pics of my enclosures, go here http://www.reptilerooms.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=62483
     
  15. ikermalli

    ikermalli Well-Known Member

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    Alright, well the tank I can get for $90
    I have the stuff for the hides
    I have a sturdy log
    I can get two thermometers for $26
    I have the food dish
    My parents will pay for the pool filter sand (how much is that?)
    They will also pay for the Mercury bulbs which I am guessing is about $35
    Then they will pay for the heat bulbs and domes so that would be around $50(?)
    Ceramic Heat Emitters will be payed for by my sister and same with the temp gun
    So all in all I don't really have to pay for much, my family is splitting it as an early christmas present kind of, and when they know i have the proper set-up my grandparents will buy the Uro, by the way, how much are they (adults)?

    So I pay: $116
    My parents pay: $105
    My sister will pay: $55
    And my grandparents about $150 i'm guessing. Do those prices sound right for what i am getting? Other than the tank though, I know a guy who can build cheap good quality tanks.

    So all together around $497 before taxes
     
  16. justkev

    justkev Hi :) Staff Member

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    honestly.. if your experience is 1 leopard gecko.. a uro may not be the best choice for you (or a uro).

    Bearded Dragons.. require a similar setup.. grow to about the same size.. and can provide you with a lot of experience (and fun) and are quite a bit more forgiving in captive care.

    Uros may seem "easy" in the short term.. but they usually require a more experienced hobbyist for long term success.

    you have asked a lot of great questions about what is needed to keep a uro.. but just remember... just because you buy the pots, pans, ingredients and oven.. that doesnt mean you can cook like a chef.. to do that takes experience... and that takes time.
     
  17. TacomaAnne

    TacomaAnne RR Contest Winner

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    Pool Filter Sand is $13.99 for a 50 lb bag, you can get it at pool supply places, but remember, if your Uro is under 7" in length (Under 2 yrs old) you will need to keep it on Papertowels.

    You don't need Both the Mercury Vapor Bulb (MVB) and a heat bulb, the MVB puts out Both UVB and Heat, they are $39.95 at www.reptileluv.com or www.deerfernfarms.com. You can also get the Temp gun from either one. You can't buy the MegaRay MVB in the stores, you have to buy them online.

    Uro's can cost from $100 for babies up to $500 or more for adults, depends on the species. Some rare species can be over $500 just for the babies. I truely believe for a beginner, a Mali Uromastyx would be the best choice. Also, please get one from a breeder, not from a pet store. www.Urotopia.com and www.deerfernfarms.com are the best places to get captive breed Uro's. Once you have your Uro, make a vet appt to get it checked out, try and get a Fecal (poo) sample to take with you that day to be checked for parasites.

    Make sure you have the enclosure up and running for at least a week to make sure you are getting the proper temps. Make sure all hides are sturdy and won't fall, Uro's are diggers, and will try to dig under the hides. The best hides are pavers and slate from Home Depot or Lowe's.

    Please, go to this website and do some research: http://www.deerfernfarms.com/Uromastyx_Care.htm .... Uro's are a great pet, but take alot to get their enclosures just right, but once they are, other than feeding daily and changing lights and substrate every 6 months, you shouldn't have to bother with them :)
     
  18. ikermalli

    ikermalli Well-Known Member

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    So now there are some mixed thoughts. Would it be okay for me to get one, or should I wait and get something easier to take care of? Uro's seem pretty easy to take care of...
     
  19. TacomaAnne

    TacomaAnne RR Contest Winner

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    Sounds like you are getting prepared early which is VERY GOOD ... my Uro's were spare of the moment purchases and I wish I had done some research on them before getting them. Also please note that its not really "baby" season so most Uro's are going to be a bit pricey, for example, Doug Dix at Deer Fern Farms has young Mali Uromastyx for $125 right now, but come June next year, they may only be $75. If you can afford it, get an adult, they will run you about $200 unless it's a breeding adult.

    Yes, Uro's are pretty easy to take care of once you have everything up and running, but remember, it can take a couple of weeks of fiddling with lights to get the temps right then once you move the animal in, it can take weeks or even months for them to adjust to their new surroundings. They may not eat, come out or poop for weeks.

    There is alot of information out there but you have gotten some good advice here from the replies, yes, some of the information differs, but read the care sheet at Doug's site that I posted previously, it is the most up to date information out there. Also, if you have one in your area, see if there is a Reptile Show you can go to and look at them and talk to a breeder. I know that Doug and Lindsey will be at many shows up coming in the next few months.
     
  20. ikermalli

    ikermalli Well-Known Member

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    alright thank you, how much are try at shows usually?
     
  21. ikermalli

    ikermalli Well-Known Member

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    how much are males? Their colors are so nice!
     
  22. TacomaAnne

    TacomaAnne RR Contest Winner

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    Yes, the males get more color than the females, but there are the more rare females that "mimic" males and get some really nice coloring. I wouldn't worry about what sex you get, worry only that it is healthy and that you have the right set up for the animal once you bring it home.

    They are usually the same price for males vs. females and they are usually a little cheaper at shows because the breeder doesn't want to transport them back, especially those that are long distances away.

    Here's another hint ... if you do find a show near you and you know you are going, right before the show, get a Small to Medium Rubbermaid w/ a lid, drill about 10 small holes (1/8" to 1/4" in Diameter) in the lid for ventilation, lay a towel in the bottom, then go to a local sporting goods store and get some hand warmers, lay a layer of hand warmers in the bottom then cover with another towel. You can also put one of those 1/2 log shelters in there to make the Uro feel a little more secure. This will make a good carrier if you do happen to find one at a show you want. Uro's can't be away from some sort of heat source for more than a few minutes, so having this ready in the car will make a world of difference.

    Where do you live? Here is a list of all the shows coming up in the next 6+ months, I'm sure there is one near you. http://www.kingsnake.com/events.html
     
  23. ikermalli

    ikermalli Well-Known Member

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    There is one in 18 days about 45 minutes away from me, but I know for sure I will not get my uro by then, the next one is in 2 months after that.
     
  24. TacomaAnne

    TacomaAnne RR Contest Winner

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    Definately wait for the one 2 months for now... that gives you plenty of time to get everything set up and running before you get the little guy :) Glad you found a show near you.
     
  25. ikermalli

    ikermalli Well-Known Member

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    Yeah, that is true.
     

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