My roommate and I have several snakes, and are planning on getting more in the next several weeks. So we're breeding mice. We have two males and six females, (one female and one male are separated,by the way.) and we're estimating quite a large number of mice. My questions are: What is the most humane way to kill the mice? I don't want anything bloody, because my snakes tend not to eat mice with bloody anything. Is there anything special to freezing the mice? thanks!
Shrap has a great gas chamber, it's the most humane way to kill them. Check this thread, he explains it there. I get mice in bulk online for three snakes, when they come I separate them out into batches of about 10 and vacuum seal them. It's working really well, there is no freezer burn at all and they seem to stay very fresh. If you were to do that you would have to freeze them first, then vacuum pack them...those things are powerful and, well, it could get ugly if they aren't fully frozen first...
As far as I know, the most humane and least bloody way is to gas them with CO2. You need to set up a "gas chamber" using a rubermaid/tupperware tub with sealable, airtight lid and screen bottom. Then there are two ways to introduce the CO2. The first is to have a screen bottom to the tub and put dry ice (solid CO2) under the screen and the live mice on top. Seal the lid and wait. The dry ice converts to gas and the mice go to sleep and sufforcate. The second system uses a hose conected to a CO2 tank (liquid CO2) and a to a hole in the top of the tub. Turn on the valve and the liquid CO2 turns in to a gas and travels down the hose and in to the tub. Same end result. I'm not sure where to get Dry Ice for the first method. For the second method, the CO2 tanks and hose etc can be purchased from any paintball proshop or supplier. A 9-12oz tank should be enough to humanly take care of several batches. The hose is called a "remote line" in the paintball world so you can ask for that. (or if you know someone who plays they may allready have the gear and you can borrow it). The CO2 itself can also be gotten from your local paintball place. NOTE: the fitting on paintball tanks and line are unique to paintball (alltough I have seen auto brake line fittings sometimes work). You cannot just go down to your local hardware store and get fittings, they must come from a paintball place.....this is for safety....paintball gases can be dangerous if you do not know what you are doing (the CO2 in the tanks is held at around 850psi) Once the mice are dead, lay them out neatly into a ziplock bag and toss em in the freezer. That part is simple. I have seen a few plans on line for "gas chambers" using both methods. Do a search and you should be able to find a few. Hope this helps.... Chris
Thanks for the responses! I'll look into CO2. will it hurt the snake,though? or any other reptiles the mice get fed to? how long should I wait? I'm expecting a large amount of mice. Thanks,guys, again. RobertII - I don't mind feeding live. I actually prefer it. Simply, I'm expecting a large quantity of mice, and I don't want to let them breed, or feed them. Also, the plus to giving snakes hand-raised mice, is that I get to control they're diet, and kill and freeze them at sizes that I need.
ok so I am not alone. All i hear about is the humane way to kill an animal. ITS KILLING AN ANIMAL! I understand now CoyoteNG
You're not a freak. At least, not because of this. Most people don't feed live because of the high risk of serious injury to their snakes. And while killing is killing, it's different when you're doing it as opposed to the snake. At least for some people it is. So they like the most humane way possible. Maybe it just puts their conscious at ease, maybe it really it better. Who really knows.
CO2 poses absolutely no danger to your snake (unless he is in the gas chamber with the mice LOL). All animals breath in oxygen and breath out carbon dioxide (CO2). When you gas the mice you are esentially suffucated them to death but the first symptom of CO2 poisoning is sleepyness.....the mice will first go to sleep and then die from lack of oxygen. I personly do not raise my own feeders yet so I am not sure how long it takes. What I might sugest is to use a clear tub and watch them as they go to sleep. Then about 10 mins after open the tub and check to see if they are dead. If they did not die they should just wake up again. (However...in humans, recovery from CO2 poisoning is accompanied by headache and nausea...I would assume that there would be similar effects in mice but I don't know....So if they do wake up then that would be creul.) BTW: as mentioned by others, I feed my snakes F/T because of safety concerns not because I'm squemish....I feed my other herps live crickets and mealworms and feel nothing about that...what's a mouse but another type of meal for my herps Chris (PS: In addition to keeping herps I am also an avid tournement paintball player and have been for many years and am very familar with the CO2 setups used. I cannot stress the safety enough when working with CO2 tanks or any compressed gas. Remeber the pressure inside the tank is as much as 850psi. That is enough to blown off a limb. In addition, the liquid CO2 can and will freeze skin instantly resulting in severe burns. Please be carefull when working with this kind of setup as you will be using the gear outside of it's normal operating parameters.....remeber...safety first)
isn't that the same as putting them in a small jar with a lid, and waiting for their oxygen to run out?
Ok...perhaps I should be a little more scientifically accurate..... All animals breath in air, a mixture of mostly nitrogen some oxygen and a few other gases. they exhange the oxgen in the air for CO2 in the lungs and breath out. In a CO2 gas chamber, you are replacing the air with pure CO2 gas. The effect is ultimately the same as sealing them in an air tight jar, but, as stated by lollapalooza, in a gas chamber it occurs much much quicker and the animal does not suffer. Sealing them in an airtight jar results in slow suffication.....not humane and rather cruel. Chris
I personally live on a farm. Have raised my own beef, rabbits, chickens for eating. I mean for human consumption. And I still do not like killing them. I do not like even putting a live crab into a pot of boiling water. Yet I love to eat all of the above. So maybe I am the freak. But: I want the most humane way as possible to end a life. Even if it is for the benefit of others to do it. Humane is the way to go in my book. Death is Death, if you have to suffer or cause suffering is up to you. I prefer to take the easy way out. And buy my steak at the grocery store. And my FT Rats online. I will let others do the dirty work for me. And pay the extra money for it. Just my Two cents worth. Radena PS: I hate to even put my discoid nymphs in the feeding tub for my leos. And if they do not get eaten by the next day. I feed the feeder nymphs some greens. If I had room I would remove them to a Quarantee tank. LOL Even bugs I feel for. But I do know there has to be a balanced view.
I dont think smashing them on the head with a hammer or something is a very pretty and I dont think i could do that. I did not know there was an issue with feeding live feeders to snakes. I am not a snake person I care for bearded dragons. Oh and i dont mind bugs dying though.
I heard somewhere you can like take a syringe thats empty and just get air into the heart and that'll kill "humanely"
I may be out a limb here, but I'm guessing a rodent's heart is pretty darn tiny and hitting it with a syringe is something that would require a bit of skill, and a still/calm rodent. I can't imagine for the life of me that a mouse or rat is going to just sit there while you try to jab it in the exact right spot, go through it's rib cage and hit that teeny tiny heart straight on. If you are going to kill them, use a gas chamber
I dont know if Id go so far as to say "high risk of serious injury" Afterall, they have somehow managed to survive in the wild eating live prey, and I do believe that the majority of "recreational keepers" (for lack of a better word) do feed live. But once again, there is a risk. One that I and many smart keepers choose not to take.
